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<head><meta charset="utf-8"><title>meeting 2021.02.19 · wg-async-foundations · Zulip Chat Archive</title></head>
<h2>Stream: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/index.html">wg-async-foundations</a></h2>
<h3>Topic: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html">meeting 2021.02.19</a></h3>

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<a name="227002844"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227002844" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227002844">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:01)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-group-mention" data-user-group-id="1172">@WG-async-foundations</span> <span aria-label="wave" class="emoji emoji-1f44b" role="img" title="wave">:wave:</span></p>



<a name="227003033"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227003033" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227003033">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>Happy friday, everyone</p>



<a name="227003242"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227003242" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227003242">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>We've had quite a few things land lately:</p>
<ul>
<li>Diagnostic involving the type of an async block refers to <code>generator</code>'s <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/81457">#81457</a></li>
<li>Improve error message for "return type cannot contain a projection or <code>Self</code>..." <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/78600">#78600</a></li>
<li>Impossible case reached: src/librustc_ty/needs_drop.rs:111 <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/72685">#72685</a></li>
<li>Stabilize the Wake trait <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/74304">#74304</a></li>
<li>Unhelpful "cannot infer type" error for ? in async block with unclear Result Err type <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/77880">#77880</a></li>
</ul>



<a name="227003263"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227003263" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227003263">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>Thanks to everyone who helped out.</p>



<a name="227003431"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227003431" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227003431">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>howdy</p>



<a name="227003468"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227003468" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227003468">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>It looks like <code>Wake</code> is set to stabilize in 1.51, thanks for pushing on this <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="211722">@Yoshua Wuyts</span>!</p>



<a name="227003511"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227003511" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Yoshua Wuyts <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227003511">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>Glad I could help! ^^</p>



<a name="227003624"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227003624" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227003624">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>Are there any other updates folks would like to share?</p>



<a name="227003674"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227003674" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227003674">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>obviously, new meeting time :)</p>



<a name="227003718"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227003718" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227003718">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm working on a new async vision doc PR</p>



<a name="227003730"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227003730" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227003730">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>Incorporating the feedback</p>



<a name="227003746"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227003746" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227003746">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>and elaborating on the process as I see it playing out</p>



<a name="227003768"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227003768" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227003768">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>one of the things I didn't really convey in the original PR...</p>



<a name="227003804"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227003804" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227003804">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>...that I envision this as being a process that people can contribute to</p>



<a name="227003869"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227003869" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227003869">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>i.e., I was trying to skech out what the structure of the document would look like, but not at all what its complete contents would be :)</p>



<a name="227003910"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227003910" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227003910">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>anyway you can see some of my in progress writing <a href="https://nikomatsakis.github.io/wg-async-foundations/">on my fork</a></p>



<a name="227003961"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227003961" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227003961">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>but if folks are excited to contribute to the doc, please leave comments and/or ping me and <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116883">@tmandry</span> to discuss :)</p>



<a name="227003986"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227003986" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227003986">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>my hope is that we can have a first draft of the doc by... mid march? and then check in on it quarterly</p>



<a name="227004011"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227004011" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227004011">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>to give an idea of timeline :)</p>



<a name="227004022"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227004022" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227004022">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>/me done typing</p>



<a name="227004144"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227004144" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227004144">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>ok one more thing :)</p>



<a name="227004185"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227004185" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227004185">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>one thing I was adding that was missing in the original is "FAQ" sections on the narratives (see e.g. <a href="https://nikomatsakis.github.io/wg-async-foundations/vision/status_quo.html#bob-reads-the-async-book-gets-a-bit-stressed-out">here</a>)</p>



<a name="227004235"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227004235" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227004235">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>although oops that FAQ has a "bug" in that the final version ("Why doesn't the async book send Bob to tokio's tutorial (or other tutorials)?") doesn't belong in the "status quo" narrative imo</p>



<a name="227004286"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227004286" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227004286">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>it's more sketching rationale for a proposed solution</p>



<a name="227004299"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227004299" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227004299">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>and not observations or evidence</p>



<a name="227004399"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227004399" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227004399">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:12)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116009">nikomatsakis</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19/near/227004185">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>one thing I was adding that was missing in the original is "FAQ" sections on the narratives (see e.g. <a href="https://nikomatsakis.github.io/wg-async-foundations/vision/status_quo.html#bob-reads-the-async-book-gets-a-bit-stressed-out">here</a>)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Oh I didn't see the little <code>&gt; FAQ</code> there at first, but I do now</p>



<a name="227004415"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227004415" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227004415">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe a bit subtle :)</p>



<a name="227004451"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227004451" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227004451">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>can play with the CSS at some point :)</p>



<a name="227004490"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227004490" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227004490">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>Well I'm very excited about the prospect of having a concrete vision for async more broadly</p>



<a name="227004516"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227004516" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Lucio Franco <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227004516">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't have any updates but popping into say hi and that I am trying to ramp back up on general wg things. Hopefully ill have some more time over the next few months to help out. :)</p>



<a name="227004628"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227004628" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227004628">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:14)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116883">tmandry</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19/near/227004490">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Well I'm very excited about the prospect of having a concrete vision for async more broadly</p>
</blockquote>
<p>on this topic--</p>



<a name="227004646"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227004646" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227004646">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>one of the things I've been debating about is the "scope" of this document</p>



<a name="227004670"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227004670" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227004670">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>I definitely want to do outreach to the core teams of various runtimes to get their take and contributions</p>



<a name="227004674"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227004674" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227004674">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>I've started doing that already</p>



<a name="227004767"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227004767" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227004767">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>that's probably where it should start, but I do think that some of the problems we will observe are problems that the <em>Rust org</em> may not be the right ones to solve</p>



<a name="227004812"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227004812" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227004812">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>so I imagine that part of the vision will be talking about e.g. "Sally goes and finds an excellent crate on <a href="http://crates.io">crates.io</a>" or whatever</p>



<a name="227004860"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227004860" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227004860">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>and/or things about the libraries or services Sally is using</p>



<a name="227004932"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227004932" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227004932">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>this is where the outreach comes in, I guess, both to convey what seems important and to get feedback on whether that's feasible / makes sense</p>



<a name="227004984"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227004984" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227004984">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>makes sense</p>



<a name="227005012"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227005012" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Yoshua Wuyts <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227005012">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:17)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> do you have any plans to eventually ratify/bless the async tenets through e.g. an RFC process?</p>



<a name="227005025"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227005025" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Yoshua Wuyts <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227005025">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>Not quite sure what the process for that should be</p>



<a name="227005032"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227005032" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227005032">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>I've been debating about that :)</p>



<a name="227005042"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227005042" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227005042">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>I do want to do <em>something</em> like that, yes</p>



<a name="227005122"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227005122" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Yoshua Wuyts <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227005122">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>cool; yeah I don't have a clear idea of what that would be either, but glad the direction is being considered</p>



<a name="227005127"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227005127" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227005127">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>I figured I'd start by iterating on how the doc should look/work and worry about process a bit later</p>



<a name="227005184"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227005184" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227005184">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>but it does raise a good question</p>



<a name="227005209"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227005209" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227005209">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>"who are the ultimate decision makers" -- I view this as a recommendaton for lang team to ratify, and/or libs/tools</p>



<a name="227005289"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227005289" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227005289">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>I've kind of been assuming the vision would be a starting point for more concrete/elaborate individual RFCs</p>



<a name="227005312"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227005312" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227005312">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I suppose ratifying the overall vision makes sense</p>



<a name="227005329"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227005329" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227005329">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm not sure if it does</p>



<a name="227005338"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227005338" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227005338">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>well</p>



<a name="227005350"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227005350" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227005350">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>so for sure we should "present" it and get feedback</p>



<a name="227005433"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227005433" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227005433">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think ultimately  I would kind of like it if the tenets and things were being laid out more in advance:)</p>



<a name="227005461"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227005461" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227005461">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>anyway it doesn't make sense for us to lay out a vision for RFCs that the teams wouldn't agree with ...</p>



<a name="227005506"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227005506" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227005506">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>right</p>



<a name="227005578"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227005578" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227005578">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>(one last thing, I left out the roadmap in my initial PR... but I see that "roadmap" as being the concrete steps we're actually thinking of taking in the "short term")</p>



<a name="227005637"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227005637" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Yoshua Wuyts <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227005637">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>One benefit in particular I see in (somehow) ratifying the tenets is as a tool to prevent re-litigating certain points over and over again on RFCs -- this would give us some base principles to point back to</p>



<a name="227005668"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227005668" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227005668">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>right</p>



<a name="227005721"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227005721" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227005721">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>well I certainly think we should continue working on this and perhaps be more explicit about how folks can pitch in</p>



<a name="227005752"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227005752" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227005752">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>but for now I think we can move on to other topics</p>



<a name="227005763"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227005763" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227005763">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>agreed on both counts :)</p>



<a name="227005772"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227005772" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227005772">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>all 3, I guess</p>



<a name="227005807"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227005807" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227005807">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>Okay, a final update on our RFCs:</p>
<ul>
<li><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/2996#issuecomment-780984524">Stream RFC finished FCP</a></li>
<li><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/3014#issuecomment-777746485"><code>must_not_suspend</code> RFC entered FCP</a></li>
</ul>



<a name="227005821"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227005821" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227005821">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>Thanks so much to <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="225192">@Nell Shamrell-Harrington</span> and <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="248777">@Bhargav Voleti</span> for pushing on these</p>



<a name="227005825"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227005825" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227005825">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess the former needs to be merged</p>



<a name="227005834"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227005834" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227005834">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>I can do that</p>



<a name="227005850"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227005850" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227005850">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>Do we have a tracking issue already?</p>



<a name="227005872"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227005872" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Yoshua Wuyts <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227005872">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>I opened one for the trait impl</p>



<a name="227005946"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227005946" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Yoshua Wuyts <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227005946">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:24)</a>:</h4>
<p><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/79024">https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/79024</a></p>



<a name="227005965"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227005965" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Yoshua Wuyts <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227005965">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>ah, this covers the RFC too</p>



<a name="227006013"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227006013" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227006013">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>btw -- I don't think this impacts this group in particular -- but the <a class="stream" data-stream-id="268952" href="/#narrow/stream/268952-edition-2021">#edition 2021</a> effort is well underway. We're collecting into the <a href="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1chZ2SL9T444nvU9al1kQ7TJMwC3IVQQV2xIv1HWGQ_k/edit#gid=0">2021 Edition Tracking Doc</a> lists of planned changes. If you think there are items that should be included, drop a comment in there. Mind you that at this point the idea should probably be well underway already.</p>



<a name="227006132"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227006132" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227006132">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>Moving on, we have one new issue to triage</p>



<a name="227006149"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227006149" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227006149">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:26)</a>:</h4>
<h2>Make async futures <code>Unpin</code> if they don't borrow anything across <code>.await</code>s <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/82187">#82187</a></h2>



<a name="227006242"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227006242" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227006242">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>hmm, I think the plan of record was not to do this, for the reason given in the first comment</p>



<a name="227006253"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227006253" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227006253">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>(it makes it too easy to make breaking changes)</p>



<a name="227006408"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227006408" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227006408">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>looks like there's discussion around making an explicit annotation that it will always be <code>Unpin</code>, and enforcing at compile time</p>



<a name="227006456"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227006456" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227006456">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think it's fine to work on a design proposal here</p>



<a name="227006470"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227006470" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227006470">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>nothing actionable for us right now, I don't think</p>



<a name="227006691"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227006691" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227006691">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>Okay, I think that wraps up everything we have to talk about today</p>



<a name="227006717"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227006717" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Yoshua Wuyts <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227006717">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>Oh, one last thing that seems important</p>



<a name="227006773"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227006773" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Yoshua Wuyts <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227006773">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>there's conversations ongoing about opening the merge window for breaking changes for various futures-rs libraries</p>



<a name="227006828"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227006828" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Yoshua Wuyts <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227006828">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>those could probably use some eyes before we commit to making any changes</p>



<a name="227006833"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227006833" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227006833">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>is that what was being discussed in <a class="stream-topic" data-stream-id="187312" href="/#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/futures-core.201.2E0.2E0.20.2F.20futures.200.2E4.2E0">#wg-async-foundations &gt; futures-core 1.0.0 / futures 0.4.0</a> ?</p>



<a name="227006839"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227006839" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Yoshua Wuyts <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227006839">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes</p>



<a name="227006843"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227006843" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227006843">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>I haven't really caught up with that yet</p>



<a name="227006962"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227006962" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Yoshua Wuyts <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227006962">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>I want to ensure if we decide to make breaking changes, we do so consciously and have a good justification to -- more eyes on this is probably a good idea</p>



<a name="227007186"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227007186" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Yoshua Wuyts <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227007186">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>(anyway, that's it)</p>



<a name="227007193"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227007193" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227007193">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>thanks--</p>



<a name="227007252"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227007252" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227007252">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>one challenge with those libraries is that the set of decision makers is not as clear as I would like :(</p>



<a name="227007275"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227007275" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227007275">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>we should discuss <em>that</em> too</p>



<a name="227007300"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227007300" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227007300">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>I see them as falling under lang/libs jurisdiction probably, ultimately</p>



<a name="227007322"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227007322" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227007322">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>lang insofar as they represent "core things" like Stream</p>



<a name="227007341"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227007341" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227007341">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I think these more general teams aren't always the best decision makers in cases like these</p>



<a name="227007383"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227007383" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227007383">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>well let me rephrase that</p>



<a name="227007403"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227007403" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227007403">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>they're not tracing super closely, but this is maybe good</p>



<a name="227007429"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227007429" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227007429">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>since big chanes then require a pretty good write-up and justification to help people with relatively little context understand what's going on</p>



<a name="227007790"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227007790" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Sean McArthur <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227007790">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>That does (to me) open the question of how much is delegated to working groups. Can the working group be empowered with decision making around the crates that fall within that group? It seems normally yes, but if there are exceptions, it'd probably help to know _when_ something is an exception and needs to be escalated.</p>



<a name="227008494"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227008494" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Yoshua Wuyts <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227008494">(Feb 19 2021 at 18:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>anyway, apologies for tacking on that point there at the end. Thanks for running the meeting <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116883">@tmandry</span>!</p>



<a name="227013380"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting%202021.02.19/near/227013380" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> tmandry <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/187312-wg-async-foundations/topic/meeting.202021.2E02.2E19.html#227013380">(Feb 19 2021 at 19:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>no worries, it's an important thing to talk about</p>



<hr><p>Last updated: Aug 07 2021 at 22:04 UTC</p>
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